Wednesday, June 17, 2009

Coming to Flatbush Avenue: A Store

Resourceflatbush On the corner of Winthrop and Flatbush, in the space formerly occupied by Caribbean buffet Nile Exquisite, comes a store that will sell ... something.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that "supply" is a Caribbean colloquialism but right now that sign might as well read "Store: A Place for Things."


the House of Resource and Supply is an astrological concept-- someone is a Taurus--, and the house of supply is a concept in business chain management-- I suspect the store will be a 99cent/beauty supplies retailer

I have no idea what you are talking about at the top of your comment, bboy, but I can't say that your ultimate prediction is any different than mine.

the House of Resource and Supply is ruled by Taurus the Bull-- remember the 5th dimension song 'Age of Aquarius' and they sang 'the moon is in the 7th House?', well Houses are astrological phases that have various significance as planets pass through them-- the House referenced (Supply) is Taurus' second House--
Now you know what the name is supposed to mean, and your curiosity is sated. Soon you will believe in the Zodiac and check your signs every day ;-)

Whoa! I thought you were just rambling in the first comment, but you were spot on.

Now we know it is an astrological reference, but that explanation leaves us no closer to figuring out what they plan to sell. I guess we'll wait until they raise the gate.

Prospect-Lefferts Gardens

Brooklyn community offers assortment of architecture and lively residents

Friday, August 17th 2007, 12:20 PM

When a community has its own blog, several vocal block associations, and Web sites devoted to its history and architecture, you know residents take their real estate seriously.

And you can bet they know the value of their own home.

In Prospect-Lefferts Gardens, Brooklyn, that's important because the housing stock is as wildly diverse as the pricing. From one street to another, the types of homes, the size of homes, the care given to homes, and the safety factor outside those homes can be as different as Iowa City is from New York City.

There are streets full of wooden A-frame Tudor townhouses off Flatbush Ave., where young adults shoot dice one block from farmhouses with white shutters down the street from low-income housing complexes. Two blocks over is Lefferts Manor, a historic district characterized by limestone townhouses set back 14 feet from the street, and brick single-family homes reminiscent of colonial Virginia.

Off Flatbush Ave. near the B and Q subway stop, there's a Western Beef, Church's Fried Chicken, two gas stations and enough Caribbean flavors to make you think you've landed in the West Indies. Some young families and hipsters have arrived, trying to re-create their own version of Park Slope, but the neighborhood faithful of African-American professionals and hard-working, middle-class New Yorkers still have presence.

And it's that very presence that gives this neighborhood between Crown Heights and Prospect Park its life.

* The Houses: Just walking the streets is a historical house tour. On Winthrop St. between Flatbush and Bedford Ave., I passed a housing project and a brick co-op building in the middle of the block before running into a string of stand-alone colonials dating back to the early 1900s.

The middle red one, 92 Winthrop St., was built in 1907. It has a front yard, backyard, sun porch and a string of flowers leading up to its front door.

"I have no intention of ever moving," says Anguila-born Milton Benjamin, who has lived there with his wife since 1982. "Even with all the younger folks coming from Park Slope pushing up prices, it's still a good neighborhood that after all these years is finally getting better."

Around the corner on Hawthorne St., a light blue Victorian home flanked by linden trees has a "For sale" sign in front of a big porch behind a fence. Amber West, a poet in NYU's Graduate School of Creative Writing, was reading a book on a porch couch. She rents the bottom floor of the house for $1,050 a month.

From Northern California, West has never lived in New York before. She looked all over the city for a month before she found this house on The house is on the market for $750,000, reduced from $850,000.

(Page 2 of 3)

"I hope I can stay here if it sells," says West. "I heard some gunshots last week, but nothing dangerous has ever happened to me and I have living space, a backyard, Prospect Park up the street and a half-hipster coffee shop on Lincoln Road with free wireless."

While we're talking, a car slows down as it drives by. "How much for the house?," yells Andrea Williams, the driver. "These things don't come on the market very often. I live around here, I know. I've always wanted a house."

* Rentals: Most rental units in Prospect-Lefferts Gardens are in the brick buildings lining Lefferts Ave. and Flatbush Ave. According to Ian Narine, a Guyana-born real estate agent with Apple Real Estate Enterprises who came to Brooklyn for the "action and the money," 500 square-foot onebedrooms rent for $1,100 and 1,200-square-foot three-bedrooms rent for around $1,700.

The occasional ground-floor apartment in a historic townhouse are slightly more expensive, renting at $1,900 for two-bedrooms with a garden.

* The People: John Wilcher, a retired buyer with Bloomingdale's, was polishing his front doorknob when I walked by. His daughters grew up here, a limestone townhouse on Maple St. Wilcher, now divorced, has been there 45 years. The doorknob, he explains, is the original fitting from when the house was built in 1905. Every year, he makes sure to weatherize his front door.

"People aren't as friendly as the original people when I moved in," says Wilcher, explaining that he says "hello" twice before stopping because of no wave back. "Some people put their garbage out on Saturday for a Monday pickup. That's not right. But it's a neighborhood for kids, and that's nice."

Still, everyone who passes says "hello" to Wilcher, and he them. Most walk dogs, others push baby carriages.

Sally Jones, 91, was a nurse at Brooklyn State Hospital. Her father was a coal miner in Pennsylvania before coming to New York to build the subway system. Her granddaughter is a state corrections officer. A great-great grandmother, Jones has had her brownstone on Fenimore St. since the early 1960s. It's across the street from a church. She sits on the stoop block-watching every day.

"Everyone who left here when it became dangerous, now wants to come back," she says. "Now it's too expensive for them."

Jones' house is probably worth $1.2 million today. She paid less than $50,000 when she bought it.

* The Stores: The coffee shop K-Dog and Dunebuggy opened on Lincoln Road near the subway and the entrance to Prospect Park. It has pastries and cakes, free wireless, inside tables and an outside bench.

(Page 3 of 3)

The bulletin board by the entrance advertises local carpenters, baby-sitters, Italian lessons and guitar teachers. Three neighborhood mothers sat outside excited about a pregnant friend whose water had broke.

Next door at Enduro, a Mexican restaurant doubling as a local bar, the crowd gathered at 6:30 p.m. on a Tuesday.

While those two shops comprise the neighborhood's hipster enclave, Caribbean retail and big stores dominate Flatbush Ave. Restaurants serving oxtail and beef patties saddle up next to sneaker stores, Carib-beat record shops and driving schools.

* The History: A portion of Prospect-Lefferts Gardens received landmark status from the city in 1979. Lefferts Manor, as the neighborhood historic district was once called, got its name from James Lefferts, a merchant who broke his farm up into more than 600 lots in 1893 to build houses for middle-class New Yorkers.

To keep the homes respectable, Lefferts used deed restrictions to ensure each lot contain single-family homes built of brick or stone and be higher than two stories. The result is a picturesque neighborhood of stately homes for people in the upper class. The same deed restriction still applies today.

Lefferts' original home is now a museum in Prospect Park. A home inside the historic district can cost $200,000 more than one outside, according to real-estate agent Narine.

* The Vitals: King's County Hospital is due east of the neighborhood in Crown Heights. Midwood High School and the Leon Goldstein School of Science, two of Brooklyn's best public high schools, are nearby; P.S. 92 on Parkside Ave., has 933 students. Test scores are average, but school critics applaud the school for being well-run and disciplined.

* Getting There: The B and Q stop at the Prospect Park station at Lincoln Road. The B train from W. Fourth St. took 21 minutes to the Prospect Park stop. The No. 2 and 5 trains are accessible at Sterling St. and Winthrop St. A trip to Wall St. on the No. 2 takes 30 minutes. Grand Army Plaza and the Brooklyn Library are just west up Flatbush Ave.

September 4, 2007

House of the Day: 18 Winthrop Street

18winthropstreet.jpgToday's house at 18 Winthrop Street isn't the most stunning house in Prospect Lefferts Gardens but it's no slouch either. The 1905 one-family brick house has a pleasing symmetry to it but the steps and elevated brick porch area look a little odd to us. Anyone know if they are original? The one interior provided in the listing shows off some swanky parquet floors and gorgeous stairway. The house has the added benefit of sitting on a 132-foot-deep lot. The nicest houses in this area are now in the $1.3 to $1.5 million range so the $849,000 asking price on this place may be a nice way in for those on slightly lesser budgets.
18 Winthrop Street [Brown Harris Stevens] GMAP P*Shark



Posted by: guest at September 4, 2007 2:40 PM

I made a comment before the 'test' and it never showed up, hmmmm

Posted by: guest at September 4, 2007 2:53 PM

Nice house, but I would not even consider living that close to Flatubush on any PLG block except maybe for Midwood. Certainly not on Rutland or anything south of it. I've spent enough time in the area to know that those corners get really, really noisy in the summer. And even without the radio-playing people hanging out all night, who wants to live that close to a major highway? If the house were further down the block...

Posted by: guest at September 4, 2007 3:05 PM

Its also the ghetto w lots and lots of section 8. PLG is only attractive at prices lower then this.

Posted by: guest at September 4, 2007 4:04 PM

how wrong you are
I actually live there, south of Midwood and very close to Flatbush. I like it fine people...just fine. i think 4th Avenue is alot worse with noise than Flatbush! All that construction and 4 lanes
Now THAT is a Highway

Posted by: tomgee at September 4, 2007 6:46 PM

I really like PLG and am looking for a house there, as well as some other areas. But I agree about not wanting to be that close to Flatbush. I've gone by many nights and seen crowds of people hanging out on the corner of Rutland and Fenimore, playing loud music. And while PLG is not a "ghetto," those apartment buildings are indeed mostly section 8 housing. You can hear the music blasting from apartments and you can see the drug deals happening on the stoop. I am sure that "tomgee" is happy there, and I'm sure others are too. But that is not something I want to live that close to. A block away is OK, or even a good ten houses, but not right next door.

Posted by: guest at September 4, 2007 9:19 PM

Do any of you have any first hand experience at all with this neighborhood? You'd have to have a death wish to want to live in this place. This place is a dump, but even if it weren't a dump it sure as heck is worth dying over. It's weird how common sense disappears as soon as people start thinking about real estate. Many people stop thinking about their families and about those who care for them and instead deceive themselves into believing that an outhouse like this can somehow be turned into a home. Well, it can't. Maybe it could be a good crack house, but a lot of improvement would be needed even for that.

Posted by: guest at September 4, 2007 9:46 PM

I don't think the house is a dump. It's actually quite nice. The neighborhood is a dump and I'd never live in PLG myself, but that's different.

Posted by: guest at September 4, 2007 9:51 PM

guest 9:46 PM,

Unlike you I have many years of experience living in PLG, raised a family there and have been very happy [as regular readers know]. However, I guess I have to defer to YOUR expertise as to what would make a good crack house because that's what you must have been smoking when you made your assinine comment.

Mr. B asks about the steps and elevated brick porch area. IIRC the row of houses like this one and the similar row on the south side of Parkside do have an elevated porch area. I can't tell from the picture if this one has been altered. I just returned from a long vacation and didn't have a chance to look at 18 Winthrop today, but I'll take a look tomorrow and report back.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 4, 2007 10:13 PM

My Gosh, how do you people know that these places are mostly section 8?

Many of the "apartment" buildings on Wintrop are coops.

It's summer time, people hang out on the street and play music. On the corner of Flatbush are many eateries so DUH you will see people there. I live on hawthorne between Flatbush and Bedford and I have never had a problem ONCE with anyone, have not been robbed not even noise.

guest at September 4, 2007 9:19 PM
a house was just listed on hawthorne between flatbush and bedford in the 20s...good luck

To all the HATERS, prrdominately Black don't mean whack... continue paying out your nose for a lil space in Park Slope

Posted by: guest at September 5, 2007 12:17 PM

I just checked out 18 Winthrow. IMO the steps and elevated brick porch area IS original, but has been painted on this house and the rest of the row.

Guest 12:17 is correct--some of the apartment bldgs. on this block are co-ops and FWIW all look well maintained.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 5, 2007 1:25 PM

I was refering to the apartment buildings on Flatbush south of Maple, all of which have many section 8 tenants (you can look that up, you know). This house is just a few in from a building with lots of section 8 tennants. As for the "eateries" on Flatbush--that was funny. Look, you can be happy there, that is great. But I do not want to live that close to drug deals and constant noise. As I said, I very much like PLG, so calling me a "hater" is plain dumb.

Posted by: guest at September 5, 2007 1:43 PM

guest at September 5, 2007 1:43 PM

I guess Section 8 folks should be quarantined lest they infest uppity folks like you.

Posted by: guest at September 5, 2007 2:20 PM

It's amazing how so many people still have black=drugs and poor=dangerous mentalities. I'm a single woman and I have never felt in threatened or uncomfortable in PLG. I think those who do need to look inside themselves for the source instead of pointing at other people's skin color or bank balances.

OTOH I'm glad these people are too scared to live in PLG. It'll help keep the prices down for the good folks.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 9:20 AM

I have lived three stoops away from 18 Winthrop Street for 20 years. Long before there were any "brownstoner" blogs to tell me about a neighborhood.

I have raised two children and had a very happy life on this block many of you are too scared to visit.

I have a huge back yard that most people in Park Slope only dream about. And a mortgage that is affordable.

I hope you stay out of my neighborhood, we are very happy in our dump without you.

What I don't understand is why boggers feel they can be so rude about different lifestyles, is it because they are anonymous?

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 8:50 PM

Wait one tutting moment, I happen to pass this house while people were standing outside, it's owned by WHITE people, well certainly at least 4 WHITE people were outside there, one in the doorway in "house" clothes hmmm

So Mr. Brownstone man, do you only promote "White" people's homes?


Posted by: guest at September 9, 2007 8:30 PM

Saw the house. IMO it's overpriced by 200k. Water-stained parquet floors upstairs needed work badly, kitchen was an outdated wreck, english basement had no windows at all, just front and back doors. BHS really aggressively prices places in this neighborhood: the good ones sell at ask, true, but the crappy ones sit forever, and they did very little to make the place seem worth it. While a mint 2 story with english basement in the manor proper might be worth in the 900s, there's no justification for asking this much for a place that needs so much work.

Posted by: guest at September 10, 2007 11:01 AM

the most dangerous and noisy thing about plg is the swarms of eight and nine-year-olds on bicycles ---> many of them are cannibals and carry automatic weapons and pee where they are not supposed to

Posted by: guest at September 12, 2007 4:07 PM

the most dangerous and noisy thing about plg is the swarms of eight and nine-year-olds on bicycles ---> many of them are cannibals and carry automatic weapons and pee where they are not supposed to

Posted by: guest at September 12, 2007 4:07 PM

The same exact brick 1 family house sold on parkside last month for around 800k with a smaller backyard. Yes the floors in two bedrooms need sanding/polyeurethene and the new owner will have the opportunity to put in kitchen cabinets and appliances of their choosing in a large kitchen space that has ceramic tile floors and leads out to a lovely deck and huge yard or into a characterful dining room with original beamed ceilings and built in china cabinets. The english basement has 2 windows in the original bedroom/small bathroom which were meant for the house servant. The house is 100 years old: all the walls/floors are straight and the architectural details and integrity have withstood the test of time with the exception of 2 original stained glass windows that few of these brick houses on Winthrop and Parkside still have in the upstairs skylights. The house has a big storage room under the "odd looking elevated" porch (originaly the coal storage room), much more storage than most huge brownstones/limestones.

The neighborhood is the park, that's what you buy the house for: 1 block to the subway, 1 block to prospect park at the skating rink, short walks to many major cultural institutions including the Brooklyn museum, the botanical gardens, the Audobon center, the Zoo, the state of the art tennis/ball courts on Parkside and some of the most interesting childrens' play areas in prospect park (including imagination park). A short train ride to Coney Island and the aquarium. A lot of stores where you can buy lovely fresh fruits and vegetables/newspapers, a pharmacy, a supermarket, 2 local hardware stores, more carribean food delights than may seem necessary, but all yummy! All withing walking distance. A family smorgasborg of good living!

There were crack houses on the block about
10-15 years ago when most of "brownstone" Brooklyn was wrestling with this issue. Today you will find a group of cohesive homeowners, a neihborhood economic institution with a wonderful art gallery on it's top floor (CAMBA), and a mix of apartment renters/owners who look out for one another and eachothers' children and speak to one another daily.

Posted by: guest at September 15, 2007 10:02 AM

January 22, 2009

House of the Day: 37 Winthrop Street

The exterior of this single-family house at 37 Winthrop Street in PLG is a little rough on the eyes but the interior has a nice vibe. Granted the kitchen could use some TLC, but the floors, moldings and ceiling beams throughout the 3,000-square-foot house look pretty solid. The two-family house is asking $879,000. Think it has a shot?
37 Winthrop Street [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark


Talk about a wide angle lens!!! I like the "Summer camp" look of the kitchen.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 22, 2009 1:14 PM

Wow, I actually really, really dig this house. Location, and layout are good, interior's in decent shape, exterior seems solid. 1BR rental is a huge plus. Might be a little noisy being that close to flatbush, but should be tolerable.

I hope it sits on the market until I'm ready to buy, but I'm doubting it.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 22, 2009 1:24 PM

The interiors look fairly attractive and I like that the rental could be in a separate carriage house. That being said, I much prefer the houses on the other side of this street which are similar to a row one block south on Parkside Avenue--IMO a prettier block.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at January 22, 2009 1:26 PM

A pioneering asshat would give it a shot. He/she would see $879K with rental income as fitting in his/her budget. More doable than a one-fam vic.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at January 22, 2009 1:28 PM

I don't care for this house at all. It might have once been lovely, but whatever charms it once had are obscured by sheetrock, paneling, and white paint. It is, however, monstrously large, so on a per-square-foot basis, it's probably quite the bargain.

Posted by: mopar at January 22, 2009 1:29 PM

I (respectfully) disagree with the hubby in terms of layout (that upstairs floor plan could use an architect with some common sense), but other than that I actually kind of like it a lot. Even the fact that it needs some love -- from the look of it (for what realtor pics are worth), you could improve it quite substantially without having to live in a hell pit for months.

Posted by: MrsCWB at January 22, 2009 1:32 PM

Oooooohhhhh BHO You used the A- Word! I'm telling!

You know whta's fun now? Looking at this dreck! you will need about 200k to buy this "Home Depot" special.

Now in 2009 who in the hell is going depart with that kind of loot? Only a Asshat...

The What (Obama save us!)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at January 22, 2009 1:34 PM

hey cwbuecheler family - go check out ridgewood. you can get a really nice old townhouse in a nice area.

Posted by: wine lover at January 22, 2009 1:36 PM

Mr. & Mrs. CWB, you guys should jointly blog your search. Seems like it would make an enjoyable read. Sure beats "The Hunt" in the NYT real estate section.

Posted by: slopefarm at January 22, 2009 1:40 PM

"Oooooohhhhh BHO You used the A- Word! I'm telling!"


***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at January 22, 2009 1:43 PM

Thanks for the tip, winelover! We are exploring any and every thing right now, including what we cannot afford -- meaning absolutely everything as long as my fired ass will remain fired :)

Posted by: MrsCWB at January 22, 2009 1:48 PM

I just posted a link to Thain's mansion in Rye on the Open Thread. Puts things into a different perspective!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 22, 2009 2:00 PM ...

has a nice ring to it!

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 22, 2009 2:03 PM

The house isn't my style at all, but it has it's plusses. I think the price is unrealistic. To my mind, this is the exact kind of house and location that really should become far cheaper as the market readjusts or realligns or whatever you want to call it. Even if the grand townhouses on the prime Lefferts Manor blocks manage to stay at over a million, a house like this on this block this close to Flatbush should really be much much cheaper.

"Might be a little noisy being that close to flatbush, but should be tolerable"

My PLG friends tell me that many corners of Flatbush still have serious hanging-out late at night blaring music problems which can seriously disrupt sleeping in any of the first 3 or 4 houses on the side streets. I have no idea if that is true of this block or not, but I'd wait 'till summer comes and check it out myself.

Posted by: shillstoner at January 22, 2009 2:07 PM

i like this house. i do think it's overpriced. i think it would be cool to have seperate rental in a 'carriage house'. sounds like a great in-law situation. near yet so far...

Posted by: bkny at January 22, 2009 2:51 PM

"Even if the grand townhouses on the prime Lefferts Manor blocks manage to stay at over a million, a house like this on this block this close to Flatbush should really be much much cheaper."

I strongly, strongly agree with this statement. If you picked this house up and moved it to Syracuse, it'd go for like $200k ... probably less. Yes, Brooklyn isn't Syracuse, but nearing a million bucks for a non-historic, decently-sized-but-not-huge older home that needs some work? Crazy.

"I have no idea if that is true of this block or not, but I'd wait 'till summer comes and check it out myself."

Good advice, and thanks for the heads-up. I definitely can see the proximity to Flatbush being an issue.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 22, 2009 3:05 PM

In re Thain: therein lies a clue to the state of Brooklyn RE. The Merrill compensation committee apparently met a month early, to ensure a round of '08 bonuses, before BofA took over the enterprise --and even though at that point Merrill was the walking dead. This was a fraudulent conveyance, I believe, and at least an act of whopping ethical malfeasance. Setting that aside, similar rounds of shameless bonus-ing happened at the other banks, most of which (all?) may now have to be nationalized. To the point: of course there are currently high end sales in Brooklyn. If you're a thirty or forty something banker who knows you're getting the last of the schwag, and can now cash out in the low eight figures, you're going to come to Brooklyn. Here you can lay down 3-5 million and get a mansion in a stable neighborhood. This is the last trickle of big money out there; expect to see the very poshest and most unique houses in the borough sell for ask or close over the next six to eight months. Then kiss this particular asset class goodbye for a generation.

Posted by: Whuh at January 22, 2009 3:28 PM

I like this house. Granted, it's no beauty from the outside, but that is fixable, and looks like it could wait. The interior is nice, and as MrsCWB says, one could live in it while fixing it up without it being a hellhole. I love the attached carriage house feature. A rental unit without hearing people above you, or coming and going is great, or it really would make a wonderful home office or workshop.

Price? Who knows? I don't think it is going to go substantially lower, but I have nothing to base that on. PLG is a desireable neighborhood.

Bob, remember the days when a listing in PLG brought out the crazies?

Posted by: Montrose Morris at January 22, 2009 3:37 PM


Shhhush! He (She/It?) might still be lurking. Also, people who weren't reading Brownstoner a year and a half ago might think we're being paranoid :-)

On another note, the PLG-based "Hawthorne Street" blog just posted something about another, far less expensive, Winthrop Street house:

Posted by: Bob Marvin at January 22, 2009 3:44 PM

Okay, a re-worked upstairs, just for Mrs CWB.

Here's a few thoughts:
- Make the 10x13 room adjacent to master bedroom, master bath and walk-in-closet. Where they now have the 2 fixture bathroom, could be the shower.
- long hall behind the stair with 2 windows. Open it up into the master bedroom and create a sitting alcove.
- Rework that bathroom with the shower. It's so big, that you can get two bathrooms one for the 8x10 bedroom and one for the 13x18,or have one big one that they can share.
- Re-work the bathroom with the tub and give it to the bigger 10x12 bedroom.

There are possibilities people....I'm digging it.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 22, 2009 3:45 PM

Well thank you BRG! That's actually my favorite part of the whole thing -- looking at floor plans and trying to make them a little better. Your plan sounds good -- I'm also wondering if there's something to do with the closet fest on the second stair landing.
But of course now that you've made me look at floor plans again... I'm now going through the first floor too. Toilet adjacent to the kitchen? Eew!

Posted by: MrsCWB at January 22, 2009 4:12 PM

I like the antique furniture, goes with the antique kitchen!

Also loving that it was built in 1910 with original flooring!

Posted by: denton at January 22, 2009 4:42 PM

its vintage, not antique

Posted by: dittoburg at January 22, 2009 4:49 PM

The house Bob listed on the same street is much nicer in my opinion--and at an asking price of 705K it is a lot closer to reality. You could perhaps get it for very low 600's and that would make almost make sense.

Posted by: shillstoner at January 22, 2009 5:20 PM

I don't know the street, but there's a lot about this house to like. One thing I would consider is either removing the addition at the front of the house or restoring it to its former glory as a porch. I think the house would work better that way. And, in reference to whuh's earlier comment about kissing the [high-end] asset class goodbye for a few years, I beg to differ: the houses [many anyway] will remain; they'll just trade at prices closer to a reality for the rest of us.

Posted by: Minmin at January 22, 2009 6:52 PM

I wish they still made couches like that.

And the interior cries out for fun diy projects. I do agree, the price will probably drop, but it is a lot of house. I would happily live there... although it'd help if the public schools were better.

Posted by: Heather at January 22, 2009 7:20 PM

there are a lot of houses that were subjected to particularly unfortunate additions...

This could be a very nice house with some updating, but PLG lacks the amenities and schools to justify this price. It's worthy of noting that laundering a shirt is cheaper by my office in midtown than it is here.... ($4 vs $2.50)

Posted by: slick at January 22, 2009 8:50 PM

I don't know that the price is very far out of line. Similarly sized 2-family houses on my block (one block north of here) sold for $800, $880, and $1 million last year.... the $800 was in fairly rough condition; the new owners had to do a gut reno on the first floor. The $1 million had two beautiful floors and one that needed substantial refinishing, a parking space and a third exposure, but said exposure abuts a house that was (and still is) being marketed as a teardown.

Posted by: carrie m at January 23, 2009 10:34 AM

January 4, 2008

Co-op of the Day: 80 Winthrop Street

You don't see a lot of apartments these days for under $200,000, which is why this studio at 80 Winthrop Street in Prospect Lefferts Gardens caught our eye. The 500-square-foot space has some prewar charm and a new kitchen which won't be in Architectural Digest anytime soon but look perfectly nice for the asking price of $113,295. So waddya think? Is $225 a foot a deal in this location? BTW, there's an open house on Sunday from 3 to 5 p.m.
80 Winthrop Street [Brooklyn Heights RE] GMAP P*Shark


Not bad at all. Not great neighborhood, but for 113K you won't find much else in Brooklyn this close to Manhattan.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 1:14 PM

Actually a pretty usable studio layout. And if you put 20% down, your mortgage payments would be about $600 a month. I guess a studio in that area would rent for a little more. plus you'd get some tax benefits and equity.

Problem is, you'd have to live there for 3 or 4 years, minimum, to ensure a little profit, because A) the RE market is pretty unsettled, probably trending down until the 08 election; B) That part of town is still a fringe area C)You'll need to cover closing costs as a seller.

It can get mighty cramped in a studio, and 4 years might seem more like a prison sentence...

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 1:15 PM

1:15 Aren't you forgetting the monthly maintenance of $384.31? Assuming a cost of capital of 7%, your annual outgoings before tax deductions are $12,542.37 per year. And $1,000 per month for a studio in this area seems crazy.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 1:20 PM

This is SO interesting, because a few months ago on the thread about the new condo development in the old hospital right near this location on the park was according to folks from Prospect Park South and Midwood, their neighborhood, not Prospect Lefferts Gardens. But now this studio is in PLG according to the broker and to Brownstoner himself. So it seems the new condo is in PLG according to the way the brokers are drawing the lines. Which is as we all know, what it's all about in Brooklyn. Not where lines are historically but where buyers and realtors draw neighborhood lines.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 1:22 PM

Gee, a mere $200,000 to die of a knife or gunshot wound. Sounds like a great idea.

I have it on good authority that if you throw in another $50K they'll include a couple of hours of torture before finishing you off.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 1:25 PM

ya, just a little interest. You should explain more the cost the reater have to pay. Should add the tax, etc or how many pecents is the price going after one year???

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 1:27 PM

They'd have to pay ME to live in this miserable building in this dreadful neighborhood. What a joke!

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 1:30 PM

I have a studio in Clinton Hill and thought for a split second about looking into this place as a much cheaper, possibly all cash deal.... but nah. The apartment looks very nice, but small. Great kitchen for a studio.

Posted by: BrooklynZoo at January 4, 2008 1:47 PM

You people really need to get over it. You talk about neighborhoods without knowing the first thing about them.

I live a block away from this place and have not experianced any potential for violence. In fact I've found my neighbors to be much more pleasant and helpful than my old neighbors in Carroll Gardens.

Granted, I think this studio is a bit high priced considering some other options in the area - there are 1 bedrooms a few blocks away going for the same price and lower maintenance.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 1:57 PM

1:22, this house is in PLG, on the West side of flatbush. The old hospital is across flatbush near prospect park, on parkside avenue. Ocean and parkside is the corner of PLG.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 1:58 PM

How nice to witness an exciting, historic, win for Obama in Iowa last night, then see a redneck like 1:25 posting his paranoid hatred here. Go back to Mississippi, loser.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 2:04 PM

Hi 1:57. Nice to see that brokers still hang out here. Lol.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 2:43 PM

Ummm, 2:04, if I'm not mistaken Obama lives in DC. Granted, he probably also has a home in his home state of Illinois, but I haven't heard anything about his buying home in Brooklyn, let alone in a crummy nabe like PLG.

A tip: THINK first, THEN post.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 2:45 PM

Right though racism exists only in Mississippi and not in NYC. Open your eyes fer chrissakes.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 2:46 PM

I've been living in Prospect Park South (on the border of PLG) for close to 2 years now and I have never had any problems with anyone there. I agree with 1:57 about how friendly everyone in the neighborhood is. I'm sure you'll be kicking yourselves in a year or so. In the past year alone I have seen so many changes, it's amazing. But you know what? I hope everyone continues to think as stupidly as you do about PLG and Prospect Park South. That way NONE of you will move here. Everyone I know that has moved here loves it, and a lot of people I know want to live there. BTW $1000 a month is very close to the going rate of a studio apartment a block or so from the park.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 3:37 PM

Funny 2:43 PM

Like I said I LIVE there. If I was a broker I (which I could have been since I got my license, but realized I have a soul) I would most likely still be living in CG.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 3:37 PM

The results from are consistent with 3:37 p.m.'s post:

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 3:53 PM

"1:15 Aren't you forgetting the monthly maintenance of $384.31? Assuming a cost of capital of 7%, your annual outgoings before tax deductions are $12,542.37 per year"

and aren't you forgetting the tax deductions? why use before tax numbers to prop up your case?

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 4:19 PM


Not THAT interesting. This block of Winthrop Street IS in PLG (and has been since the name was coined in 1968); the former Caledonia Hospital, on Parkside Ave.,a few blocks west of Ocean Ave., is not.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at January 4, 2008 4:21 PM

That place is closer to 420SF, FWIW.

Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 5:01 PM

2:45 = Huckabee

Posted by: Rehab at January 5, 2008 2:08 AM

1:25 "Gee, a mere $200,000 to die of a knife or gunshot wound. Sounds like a great idea.

I have it on good authority that if you throw in another $50K they'll include a couple of hours of torture before finishing you off. "

Hey racist f*cker, the neighborhood doesn't suck as much as you do.

Posted by: guest at January 5, 2008 9:51 AM

The two responses attempting a retort to 2:04 are completely retarded.

2:04 was talking about Obama winning the Iowa caucuses (watch TV, you'll learn what that is, since you don't have a clue obviously) as a sign of change in this country in white's attitudes towards blacks. The fact that a black man has demonstrated he has a real shot at the white house. The state of Iowa, a very very white state, chose him over the other Democratic candidates.

Turns out Iowans are more progressive than many white Brooklynites. Seems the ranting about the ignorance and non-culture in the suburbs around here is completely unfounded.

Posted by: guest at January 5, 2008 10:54 AM

It's true, 3:37, people are happy in PPS and PLG and once they get in they don't leave. We've met many people who have been in PLG's LM for over 20 years. White and black both.

I've observed the various issues some people freak out about regarding certain neighborhoods, acts like a filter that lets in only people who share the same values. There's something very similar and sympatico among all our neighbors in PLG. Tolerant, liberal, artsy, good-humored.

The only reason one doesn't hear buzz about PPS constantly is the lovely houses there are so seldom for sale. It's not a bad thing. It means people love it there. But of course it takes logic to reason that one out! Which is in short supply around here.

Posted by: guest at January 5, 2008 11:06 AM

Very well said 11:06. The "filter" you write about [actually a sort of self-selection mechanism] keeps people like 1:25 out--a very good thing IMO.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at January 5, 2008 2:53 PM

I work in this neighborhood, and my professional experiences (I am a social worker)with the residents have been the very best of my life. Yet I must say that 2 blocks away I witnessed a murder by gunshot one summer afternoon last year, and I have been approached to buy crack while entering the MacDonald's on Parkside. That said, I'd be interested in buying atound here - something more pet friendly. Listen people, you have to participate to get the quality of neighborhood you want. And let's not expect granite countertops or pre-war amenities to provide us with an identity or prop up our self image.

Posted by: guest at January 5, 2008 3:42 PM

A few blocks makes a huge difference. There are blocks of Boerum Hill or Cobble Hill nobody would walk in at night. I get creeped walking the Gowanus blocks, many of them, even in daytime. If you're looking at a property in NYC, visit it at all times of day and night, and walk around to nearby blocks, make the walk to the subway that you'd walk every day. See how you feel. See if there's a noise issue. It's important to do that in any neighborhood you're buying in, simply because even just one block can be so different from another.

Posted by: guest at January 6, 2008 1:15 PM

I left this neighborhood and don't miss it at all..I lived on Hawthorne In a nice studion coop until crazy ass loud new neighbors took over. (By the way 200K is ridiculous for this location for a studio..You can get decent l BR for that price in certain locations) Yeah I don;t miss the pervert across the street from this building on Winthrop who flashed me or the noisy summertime street corners or the Flatbush crowds. I found it crowded and insane after livng there for 16 years I sold nd left out lving in peace. Friendly people where that is complete BS. These are my.02 everyone don't have to like it

Posted by: guest at January 7, 2008 9:29 AM

Did the price drop for this place? The listing link says $113K.

$200K is high for this co-op, but $113K sounds pretty good to me. This is a decent block. Although not prime PLG, you could do a lot worse.

Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:52 PM

I purchased shares on a one bedroom co-op at 80 Winthrop street a few years ago (I have since sold it for three times the price I paid, the previous share holder was in a hurry to sell now I know why). During the five years I lived there THE MONTHLY MAINTENANCE INCREASED EVERY YEAR BY AT LEAST $100 and some years more than that. The building it self is just lipstick and rouge everything LOOKS nice (there are a lot of problems here). While I lived there I encounter an army of mice and flying water bugs. Yes. I reached into the very nice linen closet one day and when I pulled my arm out there was a water bug sitting on it. I brushed it off with a scream and it landed on the nicely painted wall, crawled up it a bit and flew away. I reported it to the building maintainer and that was that. On another occasion while sleeping in my bed a mouse ran across my behind and jumped down on to the floor. I reported this to the building maintainer and that was that. The chocolate I received one Valentines day was eaten by the mice that somehow were able to get on top of my coffee table which has wrought iron legs. There where several shooting on the block that first summer I lived there. One incident occurred right in front of 80 Winthrop. I hear they were shooting at the son of the president of the co-op board. If you look closely at the bottom of the front entrance door you can see where they patched up the bullet hole. The son still lives in the building so be aware. Oh and do not let me forget how every time my next door neighbor was having sex it was like dolby stereo sound. The laundry room well I would suggest you wash your cloths out side if you want them to get wet before the wash cycle starts. The board members are CRAZY. They can't agree on anything, their a bunch of cackling ninnies. Each one talking behind the others back. Why in a building of this size with 100 plus units would there only be about 5 or 8 members attending the board meetings. Take a guess I'll wait for your answer. This building SUCKS big time. You would be better off taking your money and purchasing somewhere else. A CONDO which is what I did with the money I received from the poor soul who purchase my shares in that piece of crap called 80 Winthrop st, in Prospect Lefferts Gardens. Now the jokes on you.

Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 1:56 PM

Does anyone know anything about the building 590 Parkside avenue? That block feels shadier than even one block west - is it safe for a 65 year old single middle eastern woman to live there?

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 9:05 AM

I lived at this location a few years ago and I also took my money and ran. I would not recommend this building to anyone who is looking to buy into shares for a co-op. Take your money and invest it some place else. 80 Winthrop Street suck!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 7:09 PM

Has anyone had any issues with the 80 Winthrop board regarding discrimination - specifically homophobia. I would love feed back.

Posted by: guest 80 at November 14, 2008 4:48 AM

Tuesday, June 16, 2009

On the North side of Winthrop Street, between Flatbush and Bedford Avenues is an interesting pre-war six-story building. It has a very modern look to it at the same time and I was a little surprised to see it was built in 1931, I would have guessed sometime closer to 1940s. There are 77 residential units in it, according to Propertyshark. To me the building is mostly unremarkable, until I happened to look up and noticed on the fa├žade a sundial. I would love to get a closer look at it, will have to carry along a more substantial camera with a telephoto lens one day. It did make me wonder if a sundial works when affixed in a vertical rather than flat position, I’ll have to research it.*


55 Winthrop Street

* According to Wikipedia, wall sundials are quite common, and simply based on the predicability of shadows. I guess I just never noticed.

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